Transcript
WEBVTT
00:00:42.440 → 00:00:44.440
Welcome to the Stone Choir Podcast.
00:00:44.600 → 00:00:45.520
I am Corey J.
00:00:45.540 → 00:00:45.920
Mahler.
00:00:46.480 → 00:00:47.240
And I’m Woe.
00:00:49.040 → 00:00:58.140
So the question that’s been raging lately on the Lutheran Twitter sphere has been, can girls teach?
00:00:59.120 → 00:01:01.980
It’s an interesting question because it’s not a Lutheran question.
00:01:02.000 → 00:01:07.540
It’s one that’s been really facing the whole church for, to be on how far back you go, centuries.
00:01:07.860 → 00:01:15.620
But certainly in the last 50 years, can girls teach has been in the forefront of what’s happening in our Christian churches.
00:01:16.760 → 00:01:23.060
And the reason we’re going to talk about it today is that in part that’s not actually the right form of the question.
00:01:23.340 → 00:01:25.540
The right form of the question is, may girls teach?
00:01:26.260 → 00:01:31.120
But before we can answer that, we have to answer a few predicate questions to define our terms.
00:01:31.760 → 00:01:33.000
The first is, what is a girl?
00:01:33.020 → 00:01:33.560
What is a woman?
00:01:34.220 → 00:01:35.280
Where did they come from?
00:01:35.720 → 00:01:36.620
What are they for?
00:01:37.440 → 00:01:41.380
And then once we understand that, we can address the question, what is teaching?
00:01:42.360 → 00:01:45.020
So, Cory, what is a girl?
00:01:47.880 → 00:01:54.920
Well, a girl is defined, in part, you could define a girl as in contrast to a man.
00:01:55.560 → 00:01:58.220
And what a girl is, is a help meat.
00:01:58.600 → 00:02:03.880
Woman is made for man, not man for woman, as Scripture very clearly states.
00:02:04.740 → 00:02:10.400
And so, woman is made in Genesis 1.
00:02:11.380 → 00:02:18.380
We have, of course, we have the more elaborate detail later on in Genesis, but we have in Genesis 1, 27.
00:02:18.900 → 00:02:20.600
So, God created man in his own image.
00:02:20.780 → 00:02:22.400
In the image of God, he created them.
00:02:22.660 → 00:02:24.580
Male and female, he created them.
00:02:25.100 → 00:02:29.940
And, of course, we’ll get to some of the grammar and such there a little bit later.
00:02:29.960 → 00:02:36.000
But the whole purpose of a girl is to help her husband.
00:02:36.320 → 00:02:38.780
Before she has a husband, it’s to help her family.
00:02:39.640 → 00:02:42.680
But that is the purpose of a girl.
00:02:43.000 → 00:02:49.780
It is not to be an equal or a competitor to man, which is sort of what we’ve allowed girls to become today.
00:02:51.840 → 00:02:53.360
So, we have in Genesis 1, 27.
00:02:54.140 → 00:02:55.740
So, God created man in his own image.
00:02:56.060 → 00:02:57.700
In the image of God, he created him.
00:02:58.260 → 00:03:00.640
Male and female, he created them.
00:03:02.420 → 00:03:05.660
Now, the question, of course, arises here.
00:03:06.660 → 00:03:11.540
Is woman, is the female, made in the image of God?
00:03:12.220 → 00:03:18.700
And we have other places in Scripture that will shed light on this, because man is the glory of God.
00:03:18.800 → 00:03:20.280
Man is made in the image of God.
00:03:21.000 → 00:03:23.600
Woman is the glory of man.
00:03:23.820 → 00:03:25.100
So there’s a difference there.
00:03:25.860 → 00:03:28.380
Is woman ultimately made in the image of God?
00:03:28.580 → 00:03:35.120
Yes, in a transitive sense, because she’s the image and glory of man, who is the image and glory of God.
00:03:35.920 → 00:03:44.960
And we have that here in Genesis 1.27, because if you actually look at Genesis 1.27, what is said there?
00:03:46.360 → 00:03:49.420
God created man in his own image.
00:03:50.420 → 00:03:55.880
And that is, of course, masculine, singular, man.
00:03:57.320 → 00:03:59.700
In the image of God, he created him.
00:04:00.260 → 00:04:03.200
And again, masculine, singular.
00:04:03.960 → 00:04:11.180
And then, and the ESV actually does a good job here, because there’s a semicolon after him, and then male and female, he created them.
00:04:11.960 → 00:04:14.580
Related matter, not the exact same thing.
00:04:14.860 → 00:04:22.840
There is a distinction, even here, in the very beginning between man and woman and the creation of man and woman.
00:04:23.540 → 00:04:25.500
So what is woman made to do?
00:04:26.300 → 00:04:28.360
She is made to be a helpmeet.
00:04:28.540 → 00:04:30.280
She is made to help her husband.
00:04:31.080 → 00:04:42.640
And there’s actually some useful language from Luther here in his, actually, Volume 1 in the American edition, because the first eight volumes are Luther’s commentary on Genesis.
00:04:44.080 → 00:04:51.300
So for Luther’s commentary here for Genesis 127, I’ll skip the first couple paragraphs here.
00:04:51.320 → 00:04:54.700
They’re just about similitude and image and comment on the sentences.
00:04:55.320 → 00:04:57.480
But male and female, he created them.
00:04:58.080 → 00:04:59.580
And this is a quote from Luther.
00:05:00.400 → 00:05:15.680
In order not to give the impression that he was excluding the woman from all the glory of the future life, Moses includes each of the two sexes, for the woman appears to be a somewhat different being from the man, having different members and a much weaker nature.
00:05:16.220 → 00:05:26.040
Although Eve was a most extraordinary creature, similar to Adam so far as the image of God is concerned, that is, injustice, wisdom and happiness, she was nevertheless a woman.
00:05:26.720 → 00:05:38.560
For as the sun is more excellent than the moon, although the moon too is a very excellent body, so the woman, although she was a most beautiful work of God, nevertheless was not the equal of the male in glory and prestige.
00:05:40.660 → 00:05:50.520
And so Luther properly recognizes that even in the garden before the fall, in the state of perfection, woman is not equal to man.
00:05:52.160 → 00:05:53.820
Men and women are different.
00:05:54.540 → 00:05:58.460
The girl was made for the man, not vice versa.
00:05:59.080 → 00:06:08.700
I think you mentioned earlier the transitive property, and I’m sure there are people listening who think that we are denying that women are made in the image of God.
00:06:09.460 → 00:06:22.760
And that’s not the point, but it’s a subtle distinction that relies on the sort of reason that really isn’t taught anymore that people don’t understand, don’t think in those terms.
00:06:23.200 → 00:06:28.180
So when you say similar to and you say transitive property, what are you actually saying?
00:06:28.200 → 00:06:32.200
What is the A to B and B to C doing in this scenario?
00:06:35.440 → 00:06:47.680
The point that we are attempting to make is that if you say that two things are entirely equal, of course, well, that gets into the laws of logic then, because two things that can’t be distinguished are of course the same thing.
00:06:48.260 → 00:06:54.560
But if man is made in the image of God, to be made in the image of God means something.
00:06:54.580 → 00:06:56.540
It does not mean to be equal to God.
00:06:56.980 → 00:07:02.480
It does not mean to be identical to God, because of course it cannot mean that, because we are finite, God is infinite.
00:07:03.020 → 00:07:08.700
And so, if we are created in the image of God, we are a lesser creature than God.
00:07:10.240 → 00:07:12.360
Woman is made in the image of man.
00:07:12.880 → 00:07:26.060
Woman is a lesser creature than man, still made in the image of God, still partakes of, if she is Christian, salvation and the eternal life, the good version of the eternal life.
00:07:26.080 → 00:07:33.180
You do get the other one if you’re not a Christian, but she is a lesser creature, but still made in the image of God.
00:07:33.780 → 00:07:34.940
There’s that difference there.
00:07:34.960 → 00:07:37.020
It’s important to note that difference.
00:07:38.760 → 00:07:40.220
What is an image?
00:07:40.900 → 00:07:43.540
In the Internet age, we just think of JPEGs.
00:07:44.020 → 00:07:46.780
Frankly, it’s about as far as people can take it.
00:07:46.880 → 00:07:51.020
But when theologians talk about image, what does that mean?
00:07:53.760 → 00:08:02.880
Well, we could actually go to the Greek here so we can perhaps address some potential pastoral detractors.
00:08:03.360 → 00:08:05.220
Because what does it actually say in the Greek?
00:08:05.700 → 00:08:06.260
Icona.
00:08:06.480 → 00:08:08.180
It’s an icon or an idol.
00:08:08.700 → 00:08:13.380
Man is meant to image or to represent God in creation.
00:08:13.760 → 00:08:15.860
So man is the pinnacle of creation.
00:08:17.100 → 00:08:20.080
Man is at the top of the hierarchy.
00:08:20.640 → 00:08:23.600
Man represents God to creation.
00:08:23.620 → 00:08:25.580
And that is what man is supposed to do.
00:08:25.920 → 00:08:27.920
And we still have this to some degree today.
00:08:27.940 → 00:08:31.700
Yes, it is to some degree lost and corrupted because of the fall.
00:08:32.120 → 00:08:44.740
But if you have a dog, particularly if you selected well and have a good breed, your dog is going to look to you after a fashion as if you were God, because your dog looks to you for everything good in his life.
00:08:44.940 → 00:08:49.280
He looks to you for food, for shelter, for warmth, for care, affection.
00:08:49.860 → 00:08:54.580
Your dog looks to you as the representative of God in creation.
00:08:54.700 → 00:09:01.060
So your dog is not necessarily looking exactly through you to God, but after a fashion, that is what’s happening.
00:09:01.600 → 00:09:12.200
And that is how woman properly interfaces and interacts with God, because the wife is not the head, the husband is the head.
00:09:12.600 → 00:09:15.640
And so the body interacts with the head, the head interacts with God.
00:09:16.100 → 00:09:17.400
That’s how things are supposed to work.
00:09:17.420 → 00:09:18.820
There’s a natural hierarchy there.
00:09:19.720 → 00:09:25.640
There’s a footnote reference that is also relevant from the same work in Luther.
00:09:25.660 → 00:09:29.620
It references Luther’s later comments on marriage.
00:09:30.180 → 00:09:36.360
And it’s important to bring this up as well, because I’m sure we’ll discuss marriage a little more shortly.
00:09:36.380 → 00:09:45.420
But what appears in the Latin text, Luther was reading the Vulgate, as likened to himself is in Hebrew, which should be about him.
00:09:45.960 → 00:09:55.160
With this expression, the text also makes a difference between the human female and the females of all the remaining animals, which are not always about their mates.
00:09:55.680 → 00:10:00.460
The woman was so created that she should everywhere and always be about her husband.
00:10:01.160 → 00:10:06.100
Thus, imperial law also calls the life of married people an inseparable relationship.
00:10:06.660 → 00:10:10.120
The female of the brutes has a desire for the male only once in a whole year.
00:10:10.680 → 00:10:14.220
But after she has become pregnant, she returns to her home and takes care of herself.
00:10:14.680 → 00:10:18.860
For her young born another time, she has no concern, and she does not always live with her mate.
00:10:19.300 → 00:10:21.900
But among men, the nature of marriage is different.
00:10:22.540 → 00:10:28.960
There the wife so binds herself to a man that she will be about him and will live together with him as one flesh.
00:10:29.800 → 00:10:35.900
And so, there is this difference between man and the wild creatures.
00:10:35.920 → 00:10:44.760
Now, perhaps the wild creatures were somewhat different before the fall, but his point about woman is very important to note.
00:10:46.460 → 00:10:49.600
What does it say in scripture about the wife?
00:10:50.260 → 00:10:55.580
She is to obey her husband in everything as she would obey the Lord.
00:10:56.380 → 00:10:58.280
That is an exceptionally high bar.
00:10:59.260 → 00:11:05.420
And so, woman is supposed to be about her husband, which makes perfect sense if you understand headship.
00:11:06.200 → 00:11:08.300
Because the head is in charge.
00:11:08.580 → 00:11:10.380
The body is supposed to follow the head.
00:11:10.400 → 00:11:14.300
Your foot isn’t supposed to tell you, no, I don’t feel like going for a walk today.
00:11:14.780 → 00:11:16.400
That’s not how things are supposed to work.
00:11:18.300 → 00:11:32.740
We were talking about this privately recently that until the last, really, two generations maybe, whenever a married woman was referenced by a third party, it was as Mrs.
00:11:33.000 → 00:11:33.900
Robert Price.
00:11:34.300 → 00:11:35.840
It was never by her first name.
00:11:36.660 → 00:11:40.840
She didn’t have her own distinct identity apart from her husband.
00:11:41.620 → 00:11:59.260
And that’s one of the things that feminism has sought in great earnestness for 100 years to cast down to ensure that every woman can be defined entirely apart from any man, whether it’s her father or her husband or the absence of a husband.
00:11:59.840 → 00:12:17.280
The essence of feminism is ultimately that girls are first party members of everything and therefore must be granted all of the same privileges and ultimately the same authority that men have because we’re all the same.
00:12:17.960 → 00:12:23.360
And Christians hear those things that did not originate within Christianity.
00:12:23.980 → 00:12:29.060
They hear them and they try to find in Scripture where they can justify them.
00:12:29.600 → 00:12:38.680
And so you end up people making an argument about the Imago Dei that, well, yes, women were made an image of God too, so of course they can do all these things.
00:12:38.740 → 00:12:52.900
And that’s why we’re discussing this right up front is that the headship that predates the fall, the headship that is the very essence of the created order, is not set, it is damaged by the fall.
00:12:53.300 → 00:12:57.260
It is harmed in its unity by the fall, but is not set aside.
00:12:57.520 → 00:12:59.660
And it’s not set aside in redemption either.
00:13:00.020 → 00:13:29.400
When we are sanctified by Christ, when we are a new creation as brothers in Christ, and scripture refers to girls as brothers in Christ as well, for the sake of inheritance, which is something we may not get to today, but if you read the passages where Paul deals with inheritance, he refers to everyone as a son of God, whether they’re male or female, because inheritance had to belong to the man.
00:13:29.420 → 00:13:40.420
And so these categories and these terms are not, they’re not cultural things that we have just sort of read about recently online and decided that we need to fight over about the Bible.
00:13:40.920 → 00:13:46.160
This is how scripture talks about what God has done in creation since the beginning.
00:13:46.740 → 00:13:52.620
And these attacks coming from outside the church are fundamental attacks on creation itself.
00:13:53.100 → 00:14:03.560
And I think as Lutherans, we’re not good at defending attacks against creation because Lutheranism was defined when the attack was against sanctification and justification.
00:14:04.280 → 00:14:06.660
And we’re not fighting the Pope anymore.
00:14:06.680 → 00:14:12.200
We’re fighting people who deny the first three books of the Bible.
00:14:12.760 → 00:14:15.340
And that’s part of this fight as well.
00:14:17.480 → 00:14:29.160
Yes, Satan doesn’t sleep, and he’s realized that he can attack us at something that is tangential and yet still very much connected to the fight that we had centuries ago.
00:14:29.880 → 00:14:44.780
And when it comes to the issue of the use of either the masculine or the feminine pronouns and such, there are those who will try to argue that, well, the masculine encompasses the feminine grammatically.
00:14:45.280 → 00:14:50.780
And one, there’s some irony there because these will be the same people who like to say she and he.
00:14:51.300 → 00:14:56.800
They’ll even go so far as to list both and list the feminine first, just completely throwing grammar aside.
00:14:57.320 → 00:15:12.180
But they are correct that the masculine can encompass the feminine because, as we’ve discussed previously in Latin, if there’s a group of a thousand women and one man, you use the masculine because that’s just how it works.
00:15:12.600 → 00:15:15.180
And that’s how it works in most languages typically.
00:15:16.080 → 00:15:24.340
However, scripture does have places where it says he or she effectively, because they man or woman.
00:15:24.880 → 00:15:32.680
And so scripture is very clear when men and women are being addressed separately or when they are being addressed collectively.
00:15:33.000 → 00:15:37.500
And so most of the scripture is in fact written with a male audience in mind.
00:15:37.520 → 00:15:47.840
It is written toward men, and that is of course only right, as we even recognize, of course, in the Small Catechism, as the head of the household should teach his household, because that’s how it works.
00:15:47.860 → 00:15:49.340
The head is supposed to teach.
00:15:52.040 → 00:16:08.000
It’s funny you mentioned the fact that we look at those language features as quirks, as let’s just the sexist misogynistic past, when in reality, those ancient languages reflected headship.
00:16:08.260 → 00:16:09.780
They reflected created order.
00:16:10.100 → 00:16:26.280
They reflected a basic fundamental understanding of what we’re trying to establish with this episode, which is that the presence of a man in a community, even if it’s a one to many relationship with one man and lots of women, the man is in charge, period, by default.
00:16:26.400 → 00:16:29.560
There cannot be an exception if you want to be godly.
00:16:30.000 → 00:16:34.320
And we’re up against a lot of people, including a lot of pastors, who just don’t buy that.
00:16:34.600 → 00:16:44.540
There are pastors who are very proud about the fact that they have girls teaching at synodical conferences, teaching theology to pastors.
00:16:44.940 → 00:16:46.180
And I think it’s the best thing ever.
00:16:46.200 → 00:17:04.180
They’re so delighted to be so progressive and so forward looking in such celebrators of the quote unquote gospel, when in reality what they’re doing is, A, abdicating their own offices on the spot, and B, defiling and mocking God’s created order.
00:17:04.800 → 00:17:08.640
And they’re doing it in a very public way, and they’re doing it unrepentantly.
00:17:09.180 → 00:17:19.040
And I pray that people will begin to take this issue more seriously, because it’s not a small linguistic matter, and it’s not about publishing books.
00:17:19.280 → 00:17:29.240
It’s about whether we submit to God, and if we as all Christians submit to God, then all girls will submit to men in all cases.
00:17:29.520 → 00:17:32.640
There’s not a case where a girl cannot submit to a man.
00:17:33.020 → 00:17:38.060
There’s a question of order, there’s a question of hierarchy, and not every girl automatically submits to every man.
00:17:38.560 → 00:17:45.500
But the fact remains, a man will always be in the lead and on top in the superior position.
00:17:45.940 → 00:18:02.100
And as you mentioned, men are superior, and that’s something that just sets the egalitarian mind on edge today, because the idea that superior and inferior must necessarily reflect the value of those involved, and it’s simply not the case.
00:18:02.780 → 00:18:07.360
If you have a general and you have a colonel, the general is his superior.
00:18:07.780 → 00:18:09.220
That’s literally what it’s called.
00:18:09.660 → 00:18:11.860
It doesn’t necessarily mean he’s a better soldier.
00:18:12.200 → 00:18:20.560
He might be, he should be, but it means that he is in the superior position, and his authority must be obeyed because of his position.
00:18:21.340 → 00:18:30.360
And what God has revealed in Scripture is that man is superior by virtue of the position that he holds in creation over all of it.
00:18:30.740 → 00:18:33.700
And you mentioned earlier that man was over all of creation.
00:18:33.720 → 00:18:35.720
That’s why all of creation fell.
00:18:35.840 → 00:18:43.060
When Jesus died and redeemed creation, he didn’t just pay for our personal sins.
00:18:43.360 → 00:18:48.560
He paid for the disobedient tree that he cursed that didn’t produce fruit.
00:18:48.900 → 00:18:53.600
And he paid for the wind that he had to rebuke because it was blowing and trying to kill them.
00:18:54.020 → 00:18:55.260
All of creation fell.
00:18:55.560 → 00:19:03.100
And while we wouldn’t categorize the disobedience of creation as sin per se, it is the result of the fall.
00:19:03.120 → 00:19:06.440
It’s the result of everything that was under Adam’s dominion.
00:19:07.320 → 00:19:25.260
Having lost that proper order, and you will see, as you mentioned, there’s a reflection of this thing where sometimes that order is still properly established, where your dog should obey you, and your dog should naturally obey you, but you must assert your superiority.
00:19:25.700 → 00:19:31.340
And in dog training, one of the worst, really the worst mistake you can make is letting your dog run wild.
00:19:31.720 → 00:19:39.480
If your dog is in charge, if your dog is calling the shots, he will think, well, there’s a hierarchy, and you’re not on top, so I must be.
00:19:39.980 → 00:19:45.560
And as soon as your dog realizes that, he’s going to run wild, and you will never get him back under control.
00:19:46.220 → 00:19:54.620
And that reality does not only apply to animals, it applies to people too, where there is an order and it is usurped.
00:19:55.240 → 00:20:02.980
There’s no way to get it properly restored without a lot of pain, because everyone is like, well, hey, I was getting away with it, why should I stop now?
00:20:04.380 → 00:20:12.880
And we’re at the tail end of a century or so of exactly that, people just running entirely wild and doing as they please.
00:20:13.300 → 00:20:22.500
And as you mentioned, egalitarianism, we have these priors, these presuppositions that we inherited from the Enlightenment, and they go completely unexamined.
00:20:23.160 → 00:20:31.100
And so this presupposition, this egalitarian prior, this belief that all men are created equal, is just false.
00:20:31.740 → 00:20:46.360
It is objectively demonstrably false, and we all know it, because we have all been in a situation where someone was either significantly better or significantly worse at something than we were at the time.
00:20:47.580 → 00:21:00.000
And so there are those who are significantly better at task A, those who are significantly better at task B, they are not equal with respect to those tasks at which they are better or worse.
00:21:00.380 → 00:21:03.340
And the same thing is true of human attributes.
00:21:03.420 → 00:21:09.120
There are those who are more intelligent, there are more, those who are more attractive, there are all sorts of differences.
00:21:09.560 → 00:21:11.860
Man to man is not equal.
00:21:12.380 → 00:21:14.580
Man to woman is certainly not equal.
00:21:15.780 → 00:21:32.680
And so these fundamentally flawed priors that we have imported from the secular world, from objectively, aggressively godless world, are just corrupting the church because they go unexamined and even pastors have bought into them.
00:21:32.700 → 00:21:41.180
And we see that, like you mentioned, when they have women stand up and speak at, even worse, teach, but just speaking at a pastor’s conference.
00:21:42.320 → 00:21:53.780
That is that enlightenment coming back to bite us because, well, we are truly progressive and we are including women and you’re not being inclusive.
00:21:54.140 → 00:21:55.500
You’re not being progressive.
00:21:55.520 → 00:21:59.660
And we can discuss whether progressive is even a good thing, but it’s not, is the short version.
00:22:00.240 → 00:22:04.140
What you are doing is undermining what God built.
00:22:04.220 → 00:22:05.920
You are undermining His order.
00:22:05.920 → 00:22:09.260
You are being faithless if you are a pastor to your office.
00:22:10.600 → 00:22:20.720
And actually, I almost skipped over something that is worth mentioning with regard to Genesis 127, because we miss it in the English.
00:22:20.740 → 00:22:37.260
And this is one of those cases where it actually, surprisingly, Hebrew helps a little bit, because it’s even more blatant what is being said in Genesis 127 in the Hebrew, because we have, of course, anthropon in the Greek.
00:22:37.820 → 00:22:40.260
But what word is that translating from the Hebrew?
00:22:40.760 → 00:22:41.240
Adam.
00:22:42.120 → 00:22:43.980
The word for man is Adam.
00:22:45.200 → 00:22:49.440
So you have, he made the man, Adam, in his image.
00:22:51.300 → 00:22:53.620
There’s no missing what is being said there.
00:22:54.080 → 00:23:00.280
Adam is the one who is made in the truest, strictest and highest sense in the image of God.
00:23:01.020 → 00:23:07.240
And specifically Adam, because all of us who followed after him are fallen, until, of course, we get to the new Adam.
00:23:09.520 → 00:23:09.900
Absolutely.
00:23:11.280 → 00:23:17.180
You had mentioned, referred back to talking about the pastors’ conferences and girls teaching pastors.
00:23:17.200 → 00:23:21.400
Do you think it’s time to move on to defining what teaching is?
00:23:24.540 → 00:23:26.720
First, I just want to go over the fall.
00:23:27.080 → 00:23:27.420
Okay.
00:23:27.440 → 00:23:31.560
Because I want to point out something vitally important about women in the fall.
00:23:32.420 → 00:23:38.220
And so, of course, in the fall, God’s cursing of creation.
00:23:38.880 → 00:23:42.760
You have first the serpent, who is essentially just dismissed.
00:23:43.340 → 00:23:45.480
There’s no discussion here, because the serpent is just cursed.
00:23:46.440 → 00:23:47.600
Because, of course, it’s Satan.
00:23:48.080 → 00:23:53.580
But to the woman he said, I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing.
00:23:54.260 → 00:23:56.200
In pain you shall bring forth children.
00:23:56.820 → 00:24:01.220
Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.
00:24:01.480 → 00:24:14.400
But of course, as has been mentioned a number of times by a number of commentators, that your desire shall be for your husband is actually better rendered into the English as your desire shall be against your husband.
00:24:14.720 → 00:24:17.000
Your desire shall be contrary to your husband.
00:24:17.280 → 00:24:18.560
And so how is woman cursed?
00:24:20.040 → 00:24:26.980
Woman is cursed in the same, not the same exact way, but in the same sense as man is cursed.
00:24:28.080 → 00:24:30.500
Man is cursed with regard to the soil, of course.
00:24:31.520 → 00:24:33.260
By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread.
00:24:34.540 → 00:24:41.700
Because the curse falls on the core of the duties, what that person is.
00:24:42.060 → 00:24:46.780
And so man is cursed with regard to his work, because work isn’t supposed to be labor and toil.
00:24:47.240 → 00:24:49.340
Work was something God made for us to do.
00:24:49.360 → 00:24:51.500
It’s one of the things we are supposed to do.
00:24:52.140 → 00:24:55.620
But it was not suffering before the fall.
00:24:56.320 → 00:24:58.940
And so woman is cursed in two ways.
00:25:00.020 → 00:25:02.020
Really one way, two aspects of it.
00:25:02.480 → 00:25:11.080
She is re-cursed with regard to womanhood, motherhood, and of course being a wife, all tied together.
00:25:11.640 → 00:25:16.120
She is cursed in regard to being a mother by having childbearing be painful.
00:25:16.180 → 00:25:19.360
It is now a process that will come at a cost.
00:25:19.960 → 00:25:21.860
That was not the case before the fall.
00:25:22.320 → 00:25:27.680
And so that strikes at the core of what woman is supposed to be, which is wife and mother.
00:25:28.480 → 00:25:37.260
And so the desire against your husband strikes at that other aspect, the central aspect of being a wife, because first wife, then mother.
00:25:37.980 → 00:25:41.740
And so woman after the fall desires to rule.
00:25:42.180 → 00:25:47.920
She desires to usurp the office that rightly belongs to her husband.
00:25:48.200 → 00:25:49.840
She desires to become head.
00:25:50.740 → 00:25:58.140
And that is the case even for women who are attempting to live as they ought and to behave as they ought.
00:25:59.260 → 00:26:15.500
Those women will struggle against that sinful nature in themselves and will try to suppress the desire to usurp the office of their husbands, to actually submit to their husbands as they are commanded to do, and as they would have been able to do without effort prior to the fall.
00:26:16.260 → 00:26:22.420
But today, of course, it requires effort on the part of both the woman and the man.
00:26:23.240 → 00:26:25.440
And man’s head, of course, has the higher duty.
00:26:25.460 → 00:26:29.580
He has to keep the women in his life under control.
00:26:30.180 → 00:26:31.900
That is part of what it means to be the head.
00:26:32.200 → 00:26:33.840
That is part of what it means to be a man.
00:26:36.020 → 00:26:39.420
As you mentioned there, I just want to reiterate this because it’s so important.
00:26:40.720 → 00:26:42.160
Man’s work was cursed.
00:26:42.280 → 00:26:43.440
His work is the ground.
00:26:43.760 → 00:26:45.040
Woman’s work is cursed.
00:26:45.060 → 00:26:49.380
Her work is childbearing and obviously childrearing, raising children.
00:26:50.060 → 00:26:55.600
Her work isn’t cursed in the field because she shouldn’t properly be in the field.
00:26:56.180 → 00:26:57.740
The man should be providing.
00:26:58.500 → 00:27:00.180
Yes, there’s that too.
00:27:02.120 → 00:27:04.580
There’s two types of working the field that man does.
00:27:05.060 → 00:27:06.480
Woman is a field.
00:27:07.600 → 00:27:07.960
Indeed.
00:27:08.120 → 00:27:16.000
And to get back to what I said about feminism, it exists to upend all of this, all of it.
00:27:16.240 → 00:27:17.440
First wave, second wave.
00:27:17.660 → 00:27:26.380
There’s no version of the pro-female machinations in the secular or religious realm.
00:27:26.980 → 00:27:28.180
They can be sanctified.
00:27:28.440 → 00:27:36.060
You cannot take scripture and take 19th and 20th century values and somehow legitimize them.
00:27:37.100 → 00:27:39.000
And that’s something we’ll get into in a little bit.
00:27:39.020 → 00:27:54.920
But there’s the genealogy of these ideas that we need to take seriously because people want to just grab whatever from the world, which is something that we were actually accused of tonight by one of the pastors on Twitter of just sort of borrowing cultural things and importing them into Christianity.
00:27:55.580 → 00:27:57.020
Nothing to be further from the truth.
00:27:57.060 → 00:27:58.880
All we’re doing is pointing to scripture.
00:27:59.260 → 00:28:20.200
We’re having to point to scripture about the issue of girls teaching and girls writing books and doing this other work that rightly belongs to men exclusively because, as you said, even well-meaning, well-intentioned, otherwise faithful Christian men and women have been so secularized that they don’t know they’re being secular.
00:28:20.440 → 00:28:26.600
They don’t know that they’re being worldly when they white-knife for girls who are doing things that they shouldn’t be doing.
00:28:27.040 → 00:28:40.260
And when a man speaks up and says, hey, that’s not your job, there’s a dogpile against the man who’s pointing to scripture in defense of a girl who is usurping her father, her husband and God himself.
00:28:44.240 → 00:28:56.740
And it just comes back to, we live at the tail end of generations of faithlessness, and that is a very hard thing to undo, because you have these presuppositions and these priors and indoctrination.
00:28:56.760 → 00:28:58.260
It’s not even right to call it education.
00:28:58.640 → 00:29:07.120
Over a course of decades, almost a century, generations where they have just wholesale adopted the secular culture.
00:29:08.500 → 00:29:10.980
And that comes out everywhere.
00:29:11.600 → 00:29:15.240
Just look at the timeline and see what happens.
00:29:15.400 → 00:29:17.280
Well, we have the 19th Amendment.
00:29:18.180 → 00:29:22.600
Now women are able to exercise political power, which of course is an exercise of headship.
00:29:22.860 → 00:29:26.620
And we can discuss whether it’s right for all men to exercise that even.
00:29:26.640 → 00:29:27.380
Of course it’s not.
00:29:27.960 → 00:29:30.580
But it is absolutely wrong for women to exercise it.
00:29:31.140 → 00:29:32.820
And what does the Church do in response?
00:29:33.360 → 00:29:35.320
Well, now women can vote in our congregations.
00:29:36.020 → 00:29:37.040
It follows the culture.
00:29:37.060 → 00:29:38.060
It doesn’t follow scripture.
00:29:38.080 → 00:29:43.040
It doesn’t listen because we know what the Church is.
00:29:43.780 → 00:29:44.740
The Church is a harlot.
00:29:45.720 → 00:29:53.500
The Church rebels against Christ in the same way Eve rebels against Adam, in the same way woman rebels against man.
00:29:54.340 → 00:29:57.780
And Christ has to bring the Church back to himself.
00:29:58.000 → 00:29:59.920
Man has to bring woman back to himself.
00:29:59.920 → 00:30:06.060
It is that constant fight against that fallen nature until things are perfected in the new creation.
00:30:07.720 → 00:30:08.280
Absolutely.
00:30:08.820 → 00:30:38.400
And I think one of the problems that we struggle with is that so many pastors and others want to define these battles in terms of the quote-unquote culture war, as though there’s somehow this political sphere that exists sort of in the periphery or in the distance, and people are importing political things into the Church and into the Christian life, and sometimes it’s causing harm, and sometimes it’s doing good.
00:30:38.820 → 00:30:47.940
And what happens is when everyone has a tendency to think, well, I’m a Christian, and I’m not sorry for anything I’m doing right now.
00:30:48.260 → 00:30:54.220
Therefore, everything I’m doing right now and everything I believe must be Christian, because I’m a Christian and I believe the Bible.
00:30:54.660 → 00:31:01.920
So it’s not possible for me to be disobeying God in an idolatrous and wicked way, because I love God.
00:31:02.560 → 00:31:06.420
And that is the exact opposite of what Christians should be thinking.
00:31:07.000 → 00:31:08.700
And frankly, it’s what we’re accused of.
00:31:08.720 → 00:31:12.480
We’re accused of ignoring what Scripture says and doing what we want.
00:31:12.900 → 00:31:20.460
And I personally find that laughable, because if I were to invent a religion, it would absolutely not be Christianity.
00:31:20.840 → 00:31:25.540
If I wanted to make up my own rules, there would be a lot more some things and a lot less of others.
00:31:25.560 → 00:31:27.020
It would not look like what we do.
00:31:27.500 → 00:31:28.980
This is not self-serving.
00:31:29.320 → 00:31:35.020
When I open scripture to any page, I see myself and my own personal sims condemned.
00:31:35.460 → 00:31:40.100
And so it’s no surprise to me when I examine my priors.
00:31:40.100 → 00:31:44.620
After decades of believing, for example, things like libertarianism were fine.
00:31:45.500 → 00:31:47.020
I never examine those priors.
00:31:47.740 → 00:31:49.180
They were sold to me by Christians.
00:31:49.380 → 00:31:51.020
There were Christians who said, oh yeah, this is great.
00:31:51.040 → 00:31:51.800
This is fine.
00:31:52.020 → 00:31:52.780
It’s political.
00:31:53.020 → 00:31:54.760
It’s totally consistent with God’s word.
00:31:55.080 → 00:31:56.580
It’s in this separate sphere.
00:31:56.600 → 00:31:57.960
So have fun.
00:31:58.080 → 00:31:59.300
It’s better than communism.
00:31:59.680 → 00:32:02.520
Like, well, I don’t like communism, so libertarianism must be fine.
00:32:03.080 → 00:32:13.060
And so when we escape from examining our priors rigorously, as they relate to scripture, you can justify anything.
00:32:13.520 → 00:32:20.240
And the problem is, what we’re facing now is that proof texting is a terrible thing.
00:32:20.260 → 00:32:24.560
And it’s something that’s easy to do, and it’s hard to get away from.
00:32:24.620 → 00:32:31.500
But it’s why I mentioned the genealogy of ideas earlier, and also we both talked about the timeline of these things.
00:32:32.020 → 00:32:41.520
There’s a timeline of what women have done in the church, what women have done in the home, what women have done in the workplace.
00:32:42.120 → 00:32:48.360
In every century where Christianity exists, you will see roles of a certain nature.
00:32:48.800 → 00:32:51.700
Like I said at the outset, Mrs.
00:32:51.720 → 00:32:53.480
Robert Preuss was married to Mr.
00:32:53.500 → 00:32:55.500
Robert Preuss, Dr.
00:32:55.520 → 00:32:56.180
Robert Preuss.
00:32:56.960 → 00:33:02.160
Her identity was as her husband’s wife, first and foremost.
00:33:02.480 → 00:33:04.460
To him, he didn’t call her Mrs.
00:33:04.540 → 00:33:06.940
Robert Preuss, because she belonged to him.
00:33:07.260 → 00:33:09.160
He called her in a much more personal way.
00:33:09.400 → 00:33:14.320
But strangers or those who were not intimately familiar as they were, should not do that.
00:33:15.100 → 00:33:20.940
And that was the norm until our grandparents, basically.
00:33:21.760 → 00:33:26.780
And what’s happening everywhere, this isn’t a Lutheran problem, this is a societal problem.
00:33:27.400 → 00:33:41.540
And it’s the reason that the quote unquote based and trad crowd constantly gets dragged by these pastors, is that we’re skipping right over all the crap that they’ve been selling us, and their grandparents have been selling us, and we’re looking back to prior centuries.
00:33:42.160 → 00:33:50.980
And I think that Lutherans are particularly vulnerable to rejecting appeals to history, because Rome did it to us.
00:33:51.420 → 00:33:56.080
When Luther popped up and was like, hey, I’m reading the Bible, and I’m not finding this stuff you’re teaching.
00:33:56.100 → 00:33:57.700
I think we’re doing it wrong.
00:33:58.420 → 00:34:01.500
Their argument was, well, we’ve been doing this forever.
00:34:01.540 → 00:34:03.740
The church has always believed this, and so you’re wrong.
00:34:04.260 → 00:34:06.600
And he said, but scripture says otherwise.
00:34:06.620 → 00:34:18.900
And then as others mentioned, he and the other Lutherans basically invented the Patristics to demonstrate that no, actually many in the church did believe what we believe in the 16th century and today.
00:34:19.420 → 00:34:23.100
And it was in fact Rome who had departed from tradition.
00:34:23.840 → 00:34:33.340
So tradition appeals are not per se invalid, but they are, they can either be good or bad.
00:34:33.340 → 00:34:35.540
They always need to be examined in terms of their priors.
00:34:36.100 → 00:34:43.740
And the priors in Latin and Greek and these other languages were that women had headship under men.
00:34:43.880 → 00:34:46.220
The woman was the body, the man was the head.
00:34:46.580 → 00:34:49.820
And so that’s reflected even in the most basic linguistic elements.
00:34:50.220 → 00:34:55.180
It’s reflected in job roles of which the woman existed in the home.
00:34:55.420 → 00:35:05.780
To be a help to her husband in his household for his vocation, whatever it was, she was to act in service to that in everything that she did.
00:35:07.660 → 00:35:14.480
A woman is given by the father to the husband to be married.
00:35:15.160 → 00:35:19.540
And that is a transfer of title that no one wants to deal with today.
00:35:19.920 → 00:35:32.160
But even the forms of the ceremony and the ways that we describe things, at least until very recently, reflected the past, the fact that the headship went from the father to the husband.
00:35:32.460 → 00:35:34.180
And that is godly and that is proper.
00:35:34.660 → 00:35:47.320
And wherever you have girls acting in a way that is contrary to the dominion of either a husband or a father, whatever they do after that is inherently illegitimate because they’re in a rebellion.
00:35:47.500 → 00:35:50.780
They’re in an open rebellion by virtue of their life.
00:35:51.500 → 00:35:53.920
And that’s also the norm today.
00:35:54.120 → 00:35:56.960
And we see pastors worrying about, well, where do I send my girl to college?
00:35:57.780 → 00:35:59.940
And we beg them, please, please don’t.
00:36:00.180 → 00:36:01.360
Don’t send them to college.
00:36:01.560 → 00:36:05.280
Your daughter will become a whore in college, even if she goes to a Lutheran college.
00:36:05.600 → 00:36:08.340
And it was like, oh, no, well, the Christian colleges are fine.
00:36:08.580 → 00:36:09.820
It’s those pagans.
00:36:09.840 → 00:36:10.540
Like, no, it isn’t.
00:36:10.920 → 00:36:16.920
It is rebellion for her to leave your household without being sent to a man’s house to be his husband.
00:36:17.500 → 00:36:28.860
And because we’ve spent so many decades in now centuries in engaging in some of these activities, we think that since we’re Christian, it must be fine when in fact we’re Christian.
00:36:28.880 → 00:36:30.780
We’ve been told better when the world hasn’t.
00:36:31.100 → 00:36:35.520
And not only we disobey God, but we are setting the worst example for others.
00:36:36.160 → 00:36:50.460
And so when the based and trad crowd looks at what our own churches are teaching today, and they see it’s inconsistent with Scripture and with the history of the Christian Church, they just look elsewhere, because we don’t look Christian to them, and they’re not wrong.
00:36:52.860 → 00:36:54.420
That’s absolutely true.
00:36:54.440 → 00:37:03.440
And we have this serious problem where we actually have pagans who are being more faithful in some ways than Christians.
00:37:04.180 → 00:37:09.220
Of course, they’re wrong when it comes to the core theological questions.
00:37:09.660 → 00:37:12.940
They’re wrong obviously on justification and soteriology.
00:37:12.960 → 00:37:14.020
They don’t understand those things.
00:37:14.740 → 00:37:27.600
But when it comes to ontology, when it comes to creation, when it comes to the nature of God, there are a lot of pagans who understand it a lot better than most Christians, including many pastors.
00:37:28.260 → 00:37:32.120
And that is not what we need to have happening.
00:37:32.140 → 00:37:35.300
We cannot permit that because as you mentioned, what does that do?
00:37:35.660 → 00:37:37.520
It drives all the young men out of the church.
00:37:37.740 → 00:37:41.020
And if you drive all the young men out of the church, you have killed the church.
00:37:41.600 → 00:37:44.560
The church cannot exist with just women.
00:37:45.100 → 00:37:46.000
That’s not a church.
00:37:46.560 → 00:37:48.240
The church has to have men.
00:37:48.980 → 00:37:56.880
Not least of all because only men can be pastors, but also because men as head have to be the ones in charge, have to be the ones who are teaching.
00:37:57.440 → 00:38:04.820
And some men are simply resorting to permitting women to do these things because those men are lazy.
00:38:04.840 → 00:38:06.140
They are derelict in their duty.
00:38:06.460 → 00:38:11.760
They don’t want to have to do the things they are supposed to do, so they figure, well, women are good enough at it.
00:38:11.840 → 00:38:19.180
Or even if you find a woman who is better at it, it is still the man’s duty to do the task if it falls within the things assigned to man.
00:38:20.220 → 00:38:24.520
But those men don’t want to do it because it’s so much easier if you just let women do it, and you don’t have to fight with them then.
00:38:25.460 → 00:38:26.940
Woman is naturally rebellious.
00:38:26.960 → 00:38:30.420
You are going to have to train a woman.
00:38:30.440 → 00:38:31.520
You’re going to have to train a wife.
00:38:31.760 → 00:38:40.360
You are going to have to deal with this constant desire she has because she is a fallen creature, and the curse that she has is rebellion against rightful authority.
00:38:40.600 → 00:38:41.500
You have to deal with that.
00:38:41.520 → 00:38:44.900
And most men, today at least, don’t want to have to deal with it.
00:38:45.100 → 00:38:47.220
And you don’t have to deal with it if you just let her do whatever she wants.
00:38:48.060 → 00:38:51.700
But if you let her do whatever she wants, she will tear down everything.
00:38:52.200 → 00:38:54.200
She will tear down society and the church.
00:38:54.220 → 00:38:55.500
And we see that happening.
00:38:56.520 → 00:39:02.160
And she will do that even when she is well-meaning, because the very act itself is usurpation.
00:39:02.320 → 00:39:04.300
It has nothing to do with good intentions.
00:39:04.580 → 00:39:07.960
It has nothing to do with how well she knows the catechism or loves Jesus.
00:39:08.320 → 00:39:13.080
If she’s doing these things, she is acting in an evil way per se.
00:39:13.380 → 00:39:15.440
And that must be stopped per se.
00:39:17.480 → 00:39:23.500
And that is one thing that so many pastors and others do not understand or at least refuse to accept.
00:39:24.640 → 00:39:42.360
You can do something that for all appearances is a great thing, it is a good thing, but because of who you are, because of the actor, because of the nature, the status of the actor, the act itself is evil.
00:39:42.860 → 00:39:52.760
And pastors should understand that, as should every Christian, particularly Lutherans, because our doctrine on this is exactly correct, is perfectly sound.
00:39:53.540 → 00:39:57.960
If you do good works and you are not a Christian, they are sin.
00:39:58.900 → 00:40:11.300
If you go out and feed the homeless, you provide them with shelter, you clothe them, you visit people in prison, you do all of these wonderful things, but you aren’t a Christian, they’re filthy rags, it’s sin.
00:40:12.320 → 00:40:13.120
None of it is good.
00:40:13.680 → 00:40:21.440
If you are a Christian, the sin that taints those things is removed, is not counted against you because you are in Christ.
00:40:21.720 → 00:40:22.660
Again, headship.
00:40:23.060 → 00:40:25.780
And because you are in Christ, your good works are good.
00:40:26.620 → 00:40:30.260
And so it is the status of the individual that matters.
00:40:30.600 → 00:40:36.320
And so woman cannot exercise headship, no matter how well she may do it.
00:40:36.740 → 00:40:44.020
You can have someone who is extremely good at the task, and is still prohibited from engaging in that task.
00:40:44.760 → 00:40:56.340
And we just look at it, because we, at least in the US, we’re largely coming at it with this capitalist mindset of, well, we should just pick the person who is best at the job, and that person should do it.
00:40:56.360 → 00:40:57.840
And that’s just not how it works.
00:40:58.300 → 00:41:01.460
Because there are certain people who should or should not do the job.
00:41:01.780 → 00:41:05.040
And so, for instance, you should not have female soldiers.
00:41:05.860 → 00:41:10.820
Is there possibly a woman who is a better soldier than a particular man?
00:41:10.940 → 00:41:11.960
Yes, that could happen.
00:41:12.420 → 00:41:13.040
Not often.
00:41:13.260 → 00:41:15.560
Most women are terrible soldiers compared to men.
00:41:15.840 → 00:41:18.320
But you could conceivably find one who is better.
00:41:19.300 → 00:41:22.520
But it would still be sin for her to be a soldier.
00:41:22.540 → 00:41:27.920
It would still be sin to permit it, because that is a task that is restricted to men.
00:41:28.640 → 00:41:30.300
Women should not be engaged in it.
00:41:31.340 → 00:41:36.040
And so we have to understand ontology, the nature of things, and of course duty.
00:41:38.260 → 00:41:38.820
Absolutely.
00:41:40.400 → 00:41:41.600
So let’s talk about teaching.
00:41:42.040 → 00:41:43.280
That’s why we’re here today.
00:41:45.580 → 00:41:53.240
Teaching is, it gets to the heart of the Lutheran conception of vocation.
00:41:53.640 → 00:42:02.220
Lutherans have this correct doctrine that of vocation, the root of their word is the same as vocal.
00:42:02.640 → 00:42:03.580
It means a calling.
00:42:04.140 → 00:42:05.880
In this case, a calling from God.
00:42:06.320 → 00:42:10.800
It means that God both created you and then called you to a purpose.
00:42:11.640 → 00:42:15.040
So there are vocations like father and husband.
00:42:16.240 → 00:42:19.140
Being a pastor is a vocation, being a mother is a vocation.
00:42:20.280 → 00:42:26.140
When God calls you into a vocation, there are certain duties that go along with it.
00:42:26.820 → 00:42:34.100
And you are to fulfill those duties, not because it’s the job, but because it is your duty to God.
00:42:34.140 → 00:42:46.460
You have been entrusted with the care of whatever that duty is and his obedience to God for a man or a woman to faithfully execute those duties in his or her vocation.
00:42:48.180 → 00:42:57.900
So, as we mentioned in the part about Genesis, there are vocations that rightly, strictly can only belong to men.
00:42:58.580 → 00:43:11.600
That which is work, that which is outside the household, you will find that those, both in Scripture and elsewhere, rightly belong to men.
00:43:12.000 → 00:43:15.280
And a girl will not be called to them by God.
00:43:15.620 → 00:43:21.080
She may be thrust into them by evil circumstance, or she may be usurping in her actions.
00:43:21.100 → 00:43:27.560
But if she ends up wearing one of those hats, it’s because she and others have disobeyed God.
00:43:28.300 → 00:43:36.540
And so the question that arose on Twitter in the last few weeks and elsewhere is is it teaching to write a book?
00:43:37.100 → 00:43:39.200
Is it teaching for a girl to write a book?
00:43:39.760 → 00:43:43.920
Is it pastoral teaching for a girl to write a theological book?
00:43:44.600 → 00:43:52.160
So the first thing we need to talk about is whether teaching is inherently done with authority.
00:43:52.940 → 00:43:56.920
And this is where the Lutheran doctrine of vocation completely falls apart.
00:43:57.480 → 00:43:58.500
I’m going to say some things here.
00:43:58.520 → 00:44:06.300
They’ll probably make a lot of Lutherans very angry because they’ll be uncomfortable with the idea that maybe the way we talk about things can lead to error.
00:44:06.640 → 00:44:08.500
But that’s exactly what’s going on here.
00:44:08.520 → 00:44:23.120
And we’ve seen it left and right from especially pastors discussing the intersection of the passage in 1 Timothy 2 and 1 Corinthians 14 regarding the proper role of women in the church.
00:44:26.120 → 00:44:33.540
I have the 1 Timothy 2 section pulled up here, so may as well read it so at least we remind people of what it says.
00:44:34.280 → 00:44:44.380
Hopefully most of our audience will be familiar with it, but nevertheless, I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling.
00:44:44.940 → 00:44:50.140
Likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel with modesty and self-control.
00:44:51.060 → 00:44:58.560
Not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire, but with what is proper for women who profess godliness with good works.
00:44:59.280 → 00:45:02.620
That a woman learn, quietly, in all submissiveness.
00:45:02.880 → 00:45:06.620
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man.
00:45:07.100 → 00:45:08.740
Rather she is to remain quiet.
00:45:09.160 → 00:45:13.480
For Adam was formed first, then Eve, and Adam was not deceived.
00:45:13.700 → 00:45:20.180
But the woman was deceived and became a transgressor, yet she will be saved through childbearing, if they continue in faith.
00:45:21.420 → 00:45:21.720
There…
00:45:23.900 → 00:45:24.420
No, that’s just…
00:45:24.460 → 00:45:34.900
I was going to point out there are a lot of things in there that need to be addressed because there are so many places that modern Christians, and unfortunately many pastors, go off the rails.
00:45:35.440 → 00:45:38.560
One in particular I’ll address before we move on to the next part of this.
00:45:39.620 → 00:45:44.560
Nowhere in there does it say this is restricted to the church.
00:45:45.840 → 00:45:47.720
Nothing in there says it’s restricted to the church.
00:45:48.260 → 00:45:50.040
In fact, what does it say?
00:45:50.060 → 00:45:58.580
I desire, then, that in every place, it doesn’t say in every church, just in the church, in houses of worship, in every Christian home.
00:45:58.600 → 00:45:59.740
No, it says every place.
00:46:00.540 → 00:46:07.800
These are instructions for life, and the appeal is to the order of creation, to the nature of men and women.
00:46:08.340 → 00:46:13.220
It is not simply a set of rules for how we conduct things in the church.
00:46:13.540 → 00:46:29.840
This is a statement about the reality of the world in which we live, the reality of man and woman, and just how things should be conducted if we are to be Christians in our lives and not just for an hour on Sunday.
00:46:31.380 → 00:46:31.960
Absolutely.
00:46:32.560 → 00:46:46.440
If you were to look at that list of things that God commands through Paul’s writing and limit it to one hour during the divine service on Sunday, you would create hell on earth.
00:46:47.320 → 00:46:56.400
If we’re going to be given a world where all these things are permissible for everyone, except when they’re in church, you have destroyed civilization.
00:46:56.780 → 00:47:00.280
And frankly, we’re not far from it when you go through that list of things.
00:47:00.500 → 00:47:01.760
As you said, they’re all happening.
00:47:02.040 → 00:47:22.500
They’re happening outside of church, and then of course they’re being brought into church because when Christians fail to listen to God, when Christians are ashamed of what God has said, and they backpedal, and they circumscribe, and they narrow down God’s law until there’s so little of it left that pretty much anyone can buy into it.
00:47:23.860 → 00:47:24.680
Satan has won.
00:47:25.040 → 00:47:27.440
And that is what we are battling today.
00:47:28.140 → 00:47:34.880
And the reason that I said that the Lutheran doctrine of vocation falls apart is for that very reason.
00:47:35.220 → 00:47:52.640
Is it because Timothy is a pastoral epistle, and around that, Paul is describing things within the church, Christians read that and say, well, this can only apply to the church because I don’t want to deal with the implications of it not applying to the church.
00:47:52.660 → 00:48:00.560
If it applies to the grocery store, if it applies to the school, if it applies to the government, then we’re in trouble.
00:48:01.180 → 00:48:05.780
I’m in trouble because I am participating in sin, and I know that I am free from sin.
00:48:06.120 → 00:48:09.320
That’s kind of where we are, and it’s simply false.
00:48:11.040 → 00:48:20.600
It’s interesting to note that grammatically, the Holy Spirit says, let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness.
00:48:20.960 → 00:48:25.240
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority.
00:48:25.580 → 00:48:40.520
So teaching is separate from exercising authority because there are kinds of exercising authority that are not teaching, but it is also connected in the same sense because teaching is a form of the exercise of authority.
00:48:40.860 → 00:48:44.760
And that’s been one of the roots of the argument online that I want to address now.
00:48:45.520 → 00:48:51.360
When a Lutheran thinks about authority, we think about it in terms of vocation.
00:48:51.660 → 00:49:01.600
So we think father, we think husband, we think teacher in a classroom or a pastor over his flock or a prince over his dominion.
00:49:02.260 → 00:49:19.620
And those are all vocations where God has called a particular person, a particular man, to a place, has given him a domain, has given him people under his care, and rebellion against that authority is sin all by itself.
00:49:20.160 → 00:49:35.520
If you disobey your father and he is not doing something that is assuming that he is not directly contributing God, your disobedience to your father is disobedience to God because of his authority as your father.
00:49:36.340 → 00:49:44.400
So when Lutherans think about vocation, they think that, well, all authority stems from and flows from vocation.
00:49:44.900 → 00:49:48.520
And that’s simply not true, because there are two kinds of authority.
00:49:48.840 → 00:49:51.120
And this is something that we all understand naturally.
00:49:51.720 → 00:49:54.780
And I’ll give you the example of this very podcast.
00:49:55.180 → 00:50:01.080
As Corey and I are speaking to you, we are teaching, we are exercising authority.
00:50:01.920 → 00:50:02.460
How so?
00:50:02.480 → 00:50:06.120
Because I have the microphone and you have the speakers.
00:50:06.860 → 00:50:10.940
I am actively speaking and you are passively listening.
00:50:11.600 → 00:50:14.020
I am giving and you are receiving.
00:50:14.340 → 00:50:16.540
That is inherently authority.
00:50:18.240 → 00:50:21.280
Per se, just by virtue of the structure of the thing.
00:50:21.800 → 00:50:29.580
Now, that is not to suggest that if you disagree with me, you’re sinning, you’re transgressing against God.
00:50:29.920 → 00:50:40.460
Because this is the type of authority where, although it is inherent in the act, it does not compel submission, except through the veracity of its claims.
00:50:41.220 → 00:50:56.460
So, if I sit here and talk and I cite scripture, and you agree with what I say about scripture, you’re doing that because the Holy Spirit, acting in you, hears the voice of God in the way I’m framing something.
00:50:56.760 → 00:51:06.520
Not that I’m a prophet, not that I’m speaking as God, but that I’m saying what God says and God within you hears and says, yes, I believe that.
00:51:06.900 → 00:51:08.120
That’s between you and God.
00:51:08.380 → 00:51:12.020
If you agree with that, you’re not submitting to me, you’re submitting to God.
00:51:12.360 → 00:51:16.720
And if you disagree with it, if I’m wrong, then you’re just disagreeing with me.
00:51:17.020 → 00:51:28.800
If I’m right, you’re disagreeing with me and God, but your only sin would be against God because the authority of my speech does not extend to condemnation of someone who doesn’t like it.
00:51:29.780 → 00:51:32.580
And there are lots of examples of this in the world.
00:51:32.600 → 00:51:39.080
If you go to a lecture, whoever the lecturer is, is standing.
00:51:39.340 → 00:51:41.280
He’s typically standing behind a podium.
00:51:41.660 → 00:51:42.540
It’s raised.
00:51:42.840 → 00:51:43.640
You are seated.
00:51:43.660 → 00:51:44.740
You are lower than him.
00:51:45.260 → 00:51:55.380
Every physical element of the process of teaching reinforces the authority of the speaker and the submission of the listener.
00:51:56.260 → 00:52:00.460
Now in the case of teaching, there are also actually two different kinds of teaching.
00:52:00.560 → 00:52:02.800
I had mentioned that teacher is a vocation.
00:52:03.780 → 00:52:11.520
It is a vocation in the realm where a student goes to a classroom, the teacher takes attendance.
00:52:12.060 → 00:52:18.660
In that case, the student has been assigned to that teacher by the school system, by the parents, whatever.
00:52:19.080 → 00:52:32.560
There is a one-to-many relationship of the teacher to the students, but there is a relationship of authority and accountability because the teacher has a responsibility for the performance of the students.
00:52:33.040 → 00:52:43.520
And that is unlike a lecture, that is unlike a podcast, and that is unlike a book where there is also a one-to-many relationship, but the many are typically anonymous.
00:52:44.060 → 00:52:53.040
The many, there is no accountability from the one to God to make sure that the many hew to whatever has been said.
00:52:53.360 → 00:52:56.980
So the authority is very limited, but nevertheless it is authority.
00:52:57.440 → 00:53:06.340
For a man to stand up and pronounce something is done as an act of authority.
00:53:06.700 → 00:53:09.080
Now, it may be usurpation depending on vocation.
00:53:09.100 → 00:53:26.300
There may be cases where, for example, in the middle of a church service where the pastor is speaking and he’s preaching, if some man stands up in the middle of the service and starts arguing with him, the man is acting with authority, but it’s evil.
00:53:26.720 → 00:53:34.380
It’s a bad type of usurpation because he’s usurping that which the pastor is rightly doing.
00:53:34.860 → 00:53:41.140
Even if the pastor is wrong, there are very limited circumstances where it would ever be permissible to do that.
00:53:41.160 → 00:53:46.940
I wouldn’t say that it should never be done, but it should be struck so extraordinary that you should probably never hear about it.
00:53:48.660 → 00:53:49.220
One would hope.
00:53:49.300 → 00:53:50.980
Basically, it would have to be outright heresy.
00:53:51.540 → 00:53:58.420
Yeah, and that does occur, but God willing, it won’t happen in our churches at least for a while.
00:53:59.080 → 00:54:17.940
So the reason for pointing out that there are two different kinds of authority and teaching is to get to the heart of what has been discussed online about girls writing books and girls writing theology books, because that’s exactly what’s happening in the Missouri Synod today and has been going on for quite some time.
00:54:18.760 → 00:54:23.480
Concordia Publishing House, CPH, is an arm of the Missouri Synod.
00:54:23.760 → 00:54:29.320
It is a wholly captive business that belongs to the corporation of the LCMS.
00:54:29.580 → 00:54:35.640
It’s a business entity, and this is a game that gets played whenever these questions come up.
00:54:36.460 → 00:54:48.800
On one hand, everything that CPH publishes must go through doctrinal review, because CPH is the church for the purposes of publishing things that should be sound doctrine.
00:54:50.180 → 00:55:00.840
But when men stand up and say, hey, but we have girls teaching, suddenly the church says, hey, you know, it’s just a publishing, it’s like print on demand.
00:55:01.200 → 00:55:11.580
They can say what they say, and it’s not the church saying it, and you just need to settle down and quit hating women, which is not what anyone has said at any point.
00:55:12.140 → 00:55:17.600
What has been said is that, again, there are several tiers of this question.
00:55:18.380 → 00:55:23.000
Is the publishing house that belongs to a church church teaching?
00:55:23.540 → 00:55:29.000
Now, the Missouri Synod plays lots of games I don’t even want to get into because I just find them disgusting.
00:55:29.020 → 00:55:32.660
But the answer is yes or no, depending on how you want to interpret it.
00:55:33.060 → 00:55:33.980
It’s all weaseling.
00:55:34.660 → 00:55:41.800
The more basic question, which is what we want to talk about, is whether publishing a book, period, is teaching.
00:55:42.320 → 00:55:47.100
And again, 1st Timothy says that teaching is exercising of authority.
00:55:48.200 → 00:55:50.280
And that is the point that I’m trying to make.
00:55:50.300 → 00:55:58.860
And when the pastors say, well, no, not all teaching can be with authority because it doesn’t touch on the pastoral office.
00:55:59.320 → 00:56:06.380
The point that we’re trying to make is it doesn’t matter because that section of 1st Timothy is not about the pastoral office.
00:56:06.740 → 00:56:14.620
It is not about what pastors do in the pulpit versus what the laity are permitted to do, whether male or female.
00:56:15.200 → 00:56:17.740
The question is much more fundamental.
00:56:18.040 → 00:56:20.580
And this is where Lutherans have gotten, we just become retarded.
00:56:21.120 → 00:56:26.440
We don’t understand these ontological questions of what is the root of the authority to do this?
00:56:26.760 → 00:56:36.680
And thank God for telling us right in the text that the order of creation is the revealed nature of the difference.
00:56:37.900 → 00:56:38.980
Eve was deceived.
00:56:39.480 → 00:56:43.380
Now, that’s profound if you’re talking about girls publishing theological books.
00:56:43.680 → 00:56:46.260
God said it wasn’t Adam who was tricked by Satan.
00:56:46.520 → 00:56:48.480
It was the girl who was tricked by Satan.
00:56:48.660 → 00:56:50.860
And that is the reason why girls can’t teach.
00:56:51.540 → 00:57:02.260
And for pastors to stand up and say, well, that just means in church, or that just means maybe not theological books or certain kinds of theological books, but maybe not the really hardcore ones, it’s nonsense.
00:57:02.560 → 00:57:10.700
If a girl is teaching and she is the one who was deceived by Satan, she is usurping the created order by opening her mouth.
00:57:11.320 → 00:57:15.820
And this is where the egalitarian thing really just causes everyone to have a meltdown.
00:57:16.660 → 00:57:18.260
The bottom line is very simple.
00:57:18.840 → 00:57:25.060
If you are a girl, your will should be expressed through your father or through your husband.
00:57:25.420 → 00:57:29.140
You should not have a public will expressed in any other way.
00:57:29.560 → 00:57:31.900
That is headship, as Corey talked about.
00:57:32.040 → 00:57:33.440
The foot doesn’t decide where to go.
00:57:33.460 → 00:57:34.440
The foot doesn’t talk.
00:57:34.860 → 00:57:36.080
The mouth is on the head.
00:57:36.380 → 00:57:37.360
The head speaks.
00:57:37.800 → 00:57:40.180
And that’s the reason that it’s Mrs.
00:57:40.200 → 00:57:42.640
Robert Price and not whatever her name was.
00:57:43.040 → 00:57:44.080
I don’t even have to know her name.
00:57:44.100 → 00:57:44.960
I know she was Mrs.
00:57:44.980 → 00:57:45.700
Robert Price.
00:57:45.960 → 00:57:46.840
She was his wife.
00:57:48.460 → 00:57:56.680
There’s not a permissible circumstance under which a woman has her views expressed in public.
00:57:57.280 → 00:57:59.820
And that was the root of the 19th Amendment.
00:57:59.840 → 00:58:01.020
It’s the root of all of this.
00:58:01.340 → 00:58:07.680
It’s the root of the feminist attack on the created order for the last 100 and however many years is to say, you know what?
00:58:08.380 → 00:58:10.200
Girls, you know, it’s girl power.
00:58:10.280 → 00:58:11.660
Girls are going to express themselves.
00:58:11.680 → 00:58:12.900
They’re going to make their mark.
00:58:13.220 → 00:58:16.920
They’re going to do those things, which they are capable of doing.
00:58:17.420 → 00:58:25.040
And that’s another part of the argument, is that, as Cory mentioned, you know, you said that it’s not about whether or not they are good at it.
00:58:25.320 → 00:58:37.340
And honestly, I think one of the reasons that a lot of these pastors are so willing to embrace all these girls doing stuff in their churches is that inside, they know that they should never have been ordained.
00:58:37.740 → 00:58:39.480
I think they know that they’re not competent.
00:58:39.800 → 00:58:51.620
And when they see the teaching abilities of some of the girls under their care, under their superior rule, they’re ashamed because they can’t do as well as the girls under them.
00:58:52.120 → 00:59:05.060
And rather than trying to be better pastors or maybe stepping down and saying, you know what, I’m not fit for this office, instead they choose to usurp God’s order by elevating girls to do the job that God has tasked them with doing.
00:59:06.960 → 00:59:27.380
There’s that and there is also, they know that if they promote women, or at least they believe that if they promote women in today’s society, it’s true, that that will insulate them from criticism from others because look at how progressive I’m being, and I am including women, and I’m doing all these things that the culture loves, which that should set off alarm bells for any Christian.
00:59:27.820 → 00:59:33.640
But they do that because then they’re insulated from being criticized by other men.
00:59:34.480 → 00:59:50.740
And if they were instead selecting competent men in their congregations, which unless they’ve absolutely failed as a pastor, they should have those in their churches, because they don’t necessarily want to select the men because that’s competition, which is not how a man would actually see it.
00:59:51.300 → 00:59:59.280
Yes, competition is healthy and it’s a good thing, but ultimately, I’m not trying to destroy you if I’m teaching and I’m better at teaching a particular subject.
00:59:59.940 → 01:00:06.900
It’s simply a recognition that God has given me certain abilities, God has given you certain abilities, and they should be used to serve the church.
01:00:07.800 → 01:00:16.840
And we, well, we don’t, but modern Christians try to weasel around everything in scripture.
01:00:18.100 → 01:00:20.580
Lutherans do this with some things.
01:00:20.920 → 01:00:31.860
Thankfully, we do not do it when it comes to justification, when it comes to sanctification, when it comes to these core issues that we got absolutely right 500 years ago.
01:00:32.600 → 01:00:37.780
And we have held correctly for 500 years, which, thanks be to God, that we have those.
01:00:38.220 → 01:00:47.400
But that doesn’t excuse us when it comes to all these other issues that if we don’t get them wrong, we certainly don’t get them right.
01:00:47.700 → 01:00:53.740
And the CTCR and those who have crafted some of the documents made in the 60s definitely got them wrong.
01:00:54.160 → 01:01:07.420
And so we have the injunctions in 1 Timothy that relate to creation, that relate to things, how they are supposed to be in a Christian society, what Christians should attempt to create wherever they live.
01:01:08.000 → 01:01:12.700
Well, we also have 1 Corinthians, which addresses the church explicitly.
01:01:12.720 → 01:01:17.140
So we have society generally, and the church explicitly.
01:01:17.160 → 01:01:19.320
Well, what does 1 Corinthians say to women?
01:01:20.580 → 01:01:29.700
As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the law also says.
01:01:30.200 → 01:01:37.440
If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home, for it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.
01:01:39.380 → 01:01:42.140
This could not possibly be more clear.
01:01:43.240 → 01:01:46.720
It says that women are to be silent in the churches.
01:01:47.120 → 01:01:56.520
It does not say that women are supposed to speak only if the pastor permits it, or the pastor wants to have women lectors or anything like that.
01:01:56.880 → 01:02:00.180
No, women are to be silent in the church.
01:02:00.220 → 01:02:01.960
Women should not be heard in the church.
01:02:02.640 → 01:02:12.820
And yes, that applies to the Bible study as well as to the service, as much as we’d like to think that, oh well, it’s just, no, don’t weasel out of it by saying it’s just the service.
01:02:12.840 → 01:02:16.200
Where does it say, just during the liturgy?
01:02:16.220 → 01:02:18.780
Where does it say, just during the service of the sacrament?
01:02:18.800 → 01:02:20.640
Where does it say, just during the service of the word?
01:02:20.660 → 01:02:25.100
It doesn’t say that anywhere, because it says women are to be silent in the churches.
01:02:25.600 → 01:02:26.080
Period.
01:02:26.780 → 01:02:27.560
No exceptions.
01:02:28.160 → 01:02:34.800
And now, of course, you’ll have those who try to wiggle out of it by saying, well, a woman’s not speaking if she writes a book.
01:02:34.820 → 01:02:35.500
Yes, she is.
01:02:36.100 → 01:02:40.140
If I write something and someone else reads it, I’m speaking in his head.
01:02:40.900 → 01:02:41.700
That’s what that is.
01:02:42.280 → 01:02:48.560
So if I write a book and it is then used by a pastor to teach his sheep, I am teaching his sheep.
01:02:49.920 → 01:02:51.200
I am exercising authority.
01:02:51.640 → 01:03:00.140
And so if a woman writes a book and the pastor uses that in church, that woman is exercising authority over those sheep and that pastor is facilitating it.
01:03:01.080 → 01:03:07.800
So he is now participating in her sin and making it worse because of his office and what he should be doing.
01:03:08.060 → 01:03:11.660
And he, as a rightful head, is going to be held to a higher standard.
01:03:12.200 → 01:03:16.120
And pastors should tremble at the fact that, yes, you have opted for the stricter judgment.
01:03:16.840 → 01:03:18.380
Maybe worry about that a little more.
01:03:20.540 → 01:03:25.520
And that’s a vital point, is that this podcast is us speaking with authority.
01:03:25.840 → 01:03:27.260
We may be completely wrong.
01:03:27.280 → 01:03:30.220
That doesn’t mean we’re not speaking authority, authoritatively.
01:03:30.840 → 01:03:34.820
It means that we’re sinning if we’re in error because we’re saying things that are lies.
01:03:36.320 → 01:03:55.980
The example you gave of these pastors who say that they’re excited to take these books published by girls and teach them in their congregations takes the other kind of authority and directly applies it because the crucial difference between you and I and a pastor is that we don’t have a caller.
01:03:56.540 → 01:04:01.400
When we speak, we do not bind consciences, and we see this every day.
01:04:01.420 → 01:04:07.580
Whenever we’ve said anything online for years, we get dogpiled by people who never give us the best construction.
01:04:07.880 → 01:04:09.640
We’re told that we’re not brothers in Christ.
01:04:09.660 → 01:04:10.660
We’re told that we’re evil.
01:04:10.680 → 01:04:18.180
We’re told every malign thing possible has been said about us directly for citing scripture.
01:04:19.260 → 01:04:20.800
And frankly, that’s okay.
01:04:21.940 → 01:04:29.940
The point is that when I speak, when you speak, we don’t bind anyone’s conscience unless the Holy Spirit binds their conscience.
01:04:30.340 → 01:04:43.300
Because although speaking has authority inherent to itself, that ends the moment that the person has done listening or reading, because they go and process it, and they decide, am I going to believe this or not?
01:04:43.680 → 01:04:53.260
That’s not the case when a pastor speaks, and that’s not the case when a pastor sanctifies teaching that’s usurping the order of creation by a girl doing it.
01:04:53.720 → 01:04:56.980
When he does it, a pastor binds consciences.
01:04:57.340 → 01:05:02.760
Anything a pastor says, whether he’s wearing his collar or not, says this is what God says, it’s implicit.
01:05:03.160 → 01:05:08.560
And a lot of these guys are afraid of that because they know that the strict for judgment awaits.
01:05:08.920 → 01:05:17.380
And so they just think, well, either, you know, it’s on Twitter, so it’s not really a big deal, or I’m not going to say what I think because I don’t want to get in trouble or cause a kerfuffle.
01:05:18.680 → 01:05:24.300
When these pastors sanctify usurpation of God’s order, they are sinning.
01:05:24.560 → 01:05:26.220
They are sinning against their flock.
01:05:26.480 → 01:05:27.860
They are sinning against God.
01:05:28.200 → 01:05:30.920
They are acting in an idolatrous way and an evil way.
01:05:32.980 → 01:05:50.300
I think as we’re getting to the end of our time in this first episode, I want to point out that part of the reason that we chose the name Stone Choir is from the verse where Jesus describes how the very stones would cry out when the Pharisees implored him to silence his followers.
01:05:50.840 → 01:05:56.480
The Pharisees were tired of Jesus’ followers praising him and giving adoration to his word.
01:05:57.020 → 01:06:04.580
And Jesus understanding the vocation of a follower better than any man could, also understands creation itself.
01:06:05.020 → 01:06:13.160
And Jesus told the Pharisees, if I tell my people to stop confessing me and to stop praising me, it will be creation itself.
01:06:13.180 → 01:06:18.840
It will be a stone whose vocation is to just sit there silently and be a stone and do nothing.
01:06:19.260 → 01:06:20.820
They would literally cry out.
01:06:20.840 → 01:06:21.900
And that wasn’t figurative.
01:06:21.920 → 01:06:27.480
That wasn’t a metaphor any more than Balaam’s donkey speaking to warn him was true.
01:06:27.980 → 01:06:31.840
These stones would literally cry out if every man went silent.
01:06:32.460 → 01:06:37.300
So the reason that we chose that name for this podcast is that you and I are laymen.
01:06:37.940 → 01:06:56.300
We have no vocation to speak apart from that vocation of Christian, of Christian man, of Christian man who has been given the aptitude and the discernment to read these things and to understand them and to explain them in a way that is accessible to many people.
01:06:56.920 → 01:07:09.040
And for all the pastors who accuse us of being cowards and being trolls and ogres and all sorts of other nonsense, the bottom line is this, what we are saying is what scripture is saying.
01:07:09.680 → 01:07:18.380
And I will tell Hans and all the other guys that the reason that that conversation started a few weeks ago was downstream from conversations that you and I have had.
01:07:18.980 → 01:07:24.200
And our churches are filled with men who agree with you and agree with me, Cory.
01:07:24.960 → 01:07:27.020
And we’re not usurping.
01:07:27.440 → 01:07:29.540
In our own congregations, we don’t pick fights.
01:07:30.020 → 01:07:31.680
We don’t cause trouble.
01:07:31.700 → 01:07:33.840
What we do is we step forward.
01:07:34.140 → 01:07:51.120
So in all these cases where we see girls usurping, whether they deliberately usurp or not, when they’re acting as ushers and lectors and all these other things, the men who agree with us, rather than arguing with those girls, they’re stepping forward in the church.
01:07:51.540 → 01:07:54.820
We are doing those things that men have advocated.
01:07:55.100 → 01:07:57.560
And that’s fundamentally the root of all of this.
01:07:58.040 → 01:08:11.660
From start to finish, the only reason that a girl would ever write a book or try to be an elder or a lector or any of the other things that goes on is if a man has failed to do so.
01:08:12.320 → 01:08:20.820
And by our publishing house, publishing all these books by girls, what the LCMS is saying is that there are no pastors to say these things.
01:08:21.140 → 01:08:22.600
There are no pastors to teach.
01:08:22.620 → 01:08:24.680
We need girls to teach our theology now.
01:08:25.140 → 01:08:28.560
We need girls to teach anything because there are no men to do it.
01:08:29.340 → 01:08:31.060
And that’s simply not the case.
01:08:31.500 → 01:08:44.060
This God has blessed Lutheranism and has blessed Christianity outside Lutheranism with faithful Christians who hear His word and obey it even in the face of the most vicious and murderous slander.
01:08:44.920 → 01:08:46.860
And we are speaking out.
01:08:46.880 → 01:08:49.680
We started this podcast, and we will continue to speak.
01:08:50.120 → 01:08:57.660
As long as pastors are unfaithful, as long as we are the only voices who are saying these things that need to be said, we will be here saying them.
01:08:58.680 → 01:09:10.740
It was hilarious that earlier this evening, Hans Feeney posted that thread where he basically said, yeah, for 50 years, all these problems have been going on in the church, and no one said anything until these anonymous cowards started this fight.
01:09:11.060 → 01:09:12.340
But they have a good point.
01:09:12.940 → 01:09:16.600
Well, that’s exactly why a lot of guys are anonymous.
01:09:16.920 → 01:09:27.660
And that’s why Corey and I are never going to pursue the pastoral office, despite the fact that virtually every pastor both of us have ever talked to in our first conversation with them.
01:09:27.860 → 01:09:31.520
I’ve had pastors interrupt me after 15 minutes saying, you should go to seminary.
01:09:32.700 → 01:09:34.700
That’s the kind of men that we are in person.
01:09:35.000 → 01:09:43.700
And all these guys that think that we’re stupid or we’re evil or we’re up to no good, not only are they being uncharitable and slanderous, but they’re also just wrong.
01:09:45.100 → 01:09:51.360
We will remain laymen because laymen do not have a vocation to a congregation.
01:09:52.380 → 01:10:04.700
I think one of the greatest strengths and greatest weaknesses of the Missouri Synod is our congregational polity means that every pastor can just be head down with his own sheep and pretending these other things are not happening.
01:10:05.340 → 01:10:16.400
But that’s not the way the world works, especially when you have the internet and you have publishing houses and you have catalogs, where error in any one place will rapidly propagate everywhere.
01:10:16.840 → 01:10:25.400
And for every pastor that wants to pretend this stuff is not happening, his congregation is full of people who are lapping it up 167 hours a week.
01:10:25.740 → 01:10:33.300
And that one hour a week that he’s preaching faithfully isn’t going to cut it when Satan is catechizing them for the other 167 hours.
01:10:33.760 → 01:10:40.720
So as much as we can do anything, we are going to speak faithfully, and may God help us to reach those who are willing to listen.
01:10:43.960 → 01:10:57.380
I want to add a little bit of emphasis to the point that we both made about what is actually happening when a pastor or another teacher in the church uses materials written by a woman.
01:10:58.780 → 01:11:05.920
And of course, that is the pastor permitting that woman to exercise authority through him.
01:11:07.580 → 01:11:08.580
But it’s worse than that.
01:11:09.020 → 01:11:14.160
And the reason it’s worse than that is because what is a pastor actually doing?
01:11:14.180 → 01:11:15.660
What is a pastor supposed to be doing?
01:11:16.980 → 01:11:20.480
A pastor speaks in the stead of Christ.
01:11:21.240 → 01:11:26.200
When a pastor is up there speaking, he is speaking with the voice of God.
01:11:26.460 → 01:11:30.120
At the very least, he is supposed to be speaking with the voice of God.
01:11:30.420 → 01:11:41.020
So if a pastor is up there teaching and he is using materials produced by a girl, he is saying that a girl can speak with the voice of God.
01:11:41.900 → 01:11:43.260
And that is simply not true.
01:11:44.340 → 01:11:45.980
Men speak for God.
01:11:46.140 → 01:11:48.900
God chose men to speak for him.
01:11:48.920 → 01:11:50.900
God made men to speak for him.
01:11:51.420 → 01:11:53.700
He did not make girls to do that.
01:11:53.920 → 01:11:55.180
Yes, in public, of course.
01:11:55.940 → 01:11:58.400
A woman can teach her children at home.
01:11:58.500 → 01:12:00.120
Absolutely, she should do that.
01:12:01.160 → 01:12:02.200
That is one of her duties.
01:12:02.280 → 01:12:03.280
We recognize that.
01:12:03.780 → 01:12:05.700
Because that is her sphere.
01:12:06.220 → 01:12:10.480
And a mother can rightly exercise a sort of headship over her children.
01:12:11.280 → 01:12:15.120
Just as children can exercise a sort of headship over their pets.
01:12:15.700 → 01:12:17.900
There are different levels to the hierarchy.
01:12:18.260 → 01:12:24.340
But when it comes to speaking in public, a woman cannot speak with the voice of God in public in that way.
01:12:24.360 → 01:12:26.240
That is something that is restricted to men.
01:12:26.900 → 01:12:31.680
And so the pastor is misrepresenting God, ultimately, is what he is doing.
01:12:32.260 → 01:12:39.840
And that is a grievous sin, and that should absolutely terrify these men when they stand up and defend the indefensible.
01:12:40.820 → 01:12:47.600
And I just have to say it is funny that they always go after the anonymity thing as if I’ve ever been anonymous.
01:12:49.380 → 01:12:52.240
Yeah, you’re so subtle with your name and face everywhere.
01:12:53.120 → 01:12:54.680
I am very subtle about it, yes.
01:12:54.700 → 01:12:57.940
They’re just absolute hypocrites and they know it.
01:12:58.260 → 01:12:59.800
They’re just insufferable hypocrites.
01:13:00.800 → 01:13:12.900
To preemptively address one of the criticisms of the last point you made, the argument has been made against the position that has been advanced against girls publishing books.
01:13:13.240 → 01:13:14.660
Well, what about the grocery store?
01:13:16.000 → 01:13:18.460
The distinction in teaching is public.
01:13:18.740 → 01:13:20.480
It is the one-to-many relationship.
01:13:21.360 → 01:13:24.880
Every Christian, male or female, has a duty at all times.
01:13:25.160 → 01:13:33.040
Young or old, your five-year-old, whether it’s a boy or a girl, has a duty to share his or her faith in Christ with anyone who will listen.
01:13:33.300 → 01:13:35.280
But those are one-to-one relationships.
01:13:35.480 → 01:13:36.580
They’re interpersonal.
01:13:36.800 → 01:13:44.280
If you’re in the grocery store and you’re a mother and you have an opportunity to share the gospel, you are commanded to do that by God.
01:13:44.600 → 01:13:52.540
We are not speaking against that because although that is a public place for legal purposes, that is not public preaching or teaching.
01:13:52.980 → 01:14:04.700
When a woman shares her faith in Christ, she’s sharing what she knows, hopefully faithfully, but that conversation should always end with, let me introduce you to my pastor.
01:14:05.980 → 01:14:07.980
And that’s the part that’s missing from this.
01:14:08.780 → 01:14:19.480
And that is where we too, like you and I between us have probably put, I know I personally put at least 100 souls in Lutheran churches, and I’m not taking credit, like I did that.
01:14:19.960 → 01:14:28.440
The fact that I have represented myself as a Lutheran online has caused well over 100 men, women and children to join Lutheran congregations.
01:14:28.800 → 01:14:31.520
And not once have I ever said, join the Church of Woe.
01:14:31.780 → 01:14:38.700
What I have said is, let me help you find a faithful pastor under whose care, you and supervision, you will be.
01:14:38.720 → 01:14:54.940
And then go and be the best layman that you can be in that congregation where you will, you know, hopefully someday serve as an elder, where you can volunteer, where you can set a good example, where you can learn to catechize your own family faithfully.
01:14:55.580 → 01:14:58.140
So we are not usurpers of the Church.
01:14:58.160 → 01:15:08.100
We are attempting to enable the Church in a way that is being battled by the very men who are sworn to God not to do so.
01:15:08.360 → 01:15:16.020
And I pray that we can once again be on the same side because we ultimately want everyone to hear the Gospel.
01:15:16.480 → 01:15:24.820
And as I mentioned earlier, a lot of the men that Cory and I have reached through the work that we have done have been men.
01:15:24.900 → 01:15:27.140
Some of them were baptized, as a result.
01:15:27.160 → 01:15:35.520
There are several who have been baptized and catechized just in the last year because of me posting the very things that pastors say I’m going to go to hell for.
01:15:35.940 → 01:15:38.600
And now these men are attending every Sunday.
01:15:39.100 → 01:15:45.200
They are excited about watching the Fort Wayne daily stream of services.
01:15:45.580 → 01:15:47.640
They’re reading their Bibles voraciously.
01:15:48.060 → 01:15:50.240
They are working with their pastors.
01:15:51.560 → 01:15:57.660
If that is the fruit of an evil tree, then I don’t know what a good tree is supposed to look like.
01:15:57.700 → 01:15:57.920
It’s.
01:16:03.460 → 01:16:06.800
Just ultimately we actually intend all of this for the good.
01:16:09.420 → 01:16:10.960
And there are those who believe that we don’t.
01:16:12.020 → 01:16:15.540
And if they’re going to believe that, then they can go ahead and believe that.
01:16:15.560 → 01:16:24.680
But nothing we have said, nothing we have posted, nothing we’ve written, we give any indication that we desire anything other than what we have stated.
01:16:25.760 → 01:16:29.520
We want to get men back into the churches.
01:16:30.380 → 01:16:42.700
And men are not going to come back into the churches as long as they are just hearing a watered down 20 year old version of what the culture tells them every day echoed from the pulpits.
01:16:43.960 → 01:16:47.640
Because if we have pastors like that, why on earth would I go to church?
01:16:48.560 → 01:16:59.460
It makes so much more sense to wake up late and go have brunch instead of going to a church where I’m just going to hear the same nonsense the culture tells me every single day.
01:17:00.440 → 01:17:14.020
So instead, we want pastors to be faithful and actually teach what Christianity is, not this watered-down, culturally sensitive version of Christianity that is not.
01:17:18.140 → 01:17:23.460
As this podcast goes along, I hope that we’ll reach the right people.
01:17:24.020 → 01:17:26.060
And as we do this, we’re going to name names.
01:17:26.320 → 01:17:29.620
We’re going to go after people by name for what they’ve said in public.
01:17:30.020 → 01:17:32.320
And it is never done with malicious intent.
01:17:32.720 → 01:17:36.300
It is not with the intent of destruction.
01:17:36.720 → 01:17:40.760
It is done with the intent of calling to repentance.
01:17:41.340 → 01:17:46.480
Because as long as these errors persist, men will be chased away.
01:17:46.880 → 01:17:58.780
And one of the things that we have seen repeatedly is that there are a lot of pastors that think it’s hilarious for the type of men who have come into their very own churches because of the things that we have said over the past few years.
01:17:59.220 → 01:18:00.980
Pastors want those guys to go to hell.
01:18:00.980 → 01:18:03.200
They don’t want them in their pews.
01:18:03.800 → 01:18:15.160
And you could not find a more different spirit dichotomy than what we see with the response to men who hold opinions that are contrary to the world.
01:18:15.500 → 01:18:22.200
And in some cases, as they are learning about Christianity or contrary to Christianity, they’re ignorant.
01:18:22.460 → 01:18:26.080
They’ve been raised outside the church by an evil world.
01:18:26.580 → 01:18:31.120
We are trying to connect them with pastors who will be faithful to the teachings of God.
01:18:31.620 → 01:18:35.040
And it’s astonishing and depressing to me how difficult that is.
01:18:35.120 → 01:18:41.780
But the reason that we are speaking, again, it’s not to condemn just for the sake of condemnation.
01:18:42.180 → 01:18:53.460
It is because I want there to still be Lutheran churches in 20 years for us and for all of these people who are trying to come to God to find and to find faithful preaching.
01:18:53.920 → 01:18:58.020
And on the trajectory that we’re on today, that’s not going to be the case.
01:18:58.300 → 01:19:01.380
There will not be a Christian church in 20 years.
01:19:01.400 → 01:19:07.060
And I know the pastors think that’s not the case because of the gates of hell not prevailing and all that stuff.
01:19:07.720 → 01:19:08.580
Yes, that’s true.
01:19:08.740 → 01:19:23.260
Christianity will always be preserved, but God also promised there would be a remnant, and God promised there would be a great apostasy, and God promised that many of those who cry out, Lord, Lord, do we not prophesy in your name and cast out demons?
01:19:24.180 → 01:19:27.880
God will say to them, you workers of lawlessness, I never knew you.
01:19:27.900 → 01:19:31.280
We don’t want that to happen to the pastors who hate us.
01:19:31.640 → 01:19:46.380
We want them to repent, and we want the people who want to come to our churches to find churches that are faithful to God so that we can all meet in heaven and not have any of these problems, and we can live the perfect lives that God created us to live in the first place.
01:19:50.000 → 01:20:01.640
I think we can sum up, in large part, in addition to the stones crying out, we can sum up the purpose of this podcast with Ezekiel 33.
01:20:03.720 → 01:20:07.420
So you, son of man, I have made a watchman for the house of Israel.
01:20:08.040 → 01:20:11.660
Whenever you hear a word from my mouth, you shall give them warning from me.
01:20:12.240 → 01:20:19.220
If I say to the wicked, O wicked one, you shall surely die, and you do not speak to warn the wicked to turn from his way.
01:20:19.700 → 01:20:24.860
That wicked person shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand.
01:20:25.380 → 01:20:34.340
But if you warn the wicked to turn away from his way, and he does not turn from his way, that person shall die in his iniquity, but you will have delivered your soul.
01:20:36.180 → 01:20:37.460
And that’s what it comes down to.
01:20:38.280 → 01:20:39.140
We don’t have a choice.
01:20:41.140 → 01:20:45.780
If Christ’s disciples, his followers, had been silent, the stones would have cried out.
01:20:45.820 → 01:20:47.220
The stones would not have had a choice.
01:20:47.700 → 01:20:49.680
The stones would have to have cried out.
01:20:50.220 → 01:20:51.780
It would have been their duty to cry out.
01:20:52.400 → 01:21:00.900
Well, it’s our duty to address these things, because as was stated previously, God has given us the ability to see them and the ability to address them.
01:21:01.240 → 01:21:02.500
And so we do not have a choice.
01:21:03.360 → 01:21:08.660
This isn’t a project because it’s necessarily enjoyable or fun.
01:21:09.000 → 01:21:17.440
This is something that has to be done, because there is a duty to do it, and because the consequences of not doing it are unthinkable.
01:21:18.980 → 01:21:19.300
Amen.
